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Open discussion: Hannibal 2x11 "Ko no mono"
dire ravenstag gunmettle, dire ravenstag, dire ravenstag 04
You get your discussion post early tonight, because


\o/ \o\ /o/ ~o~

(Gonna be a big night tonight. Interesting things may happen on Tumblr.)

Meanwhile, this week's new eyeshadows at Aromaleigh: Murder Basement, Tender Murder Caress, and Turducken (kind of)

ABATTOIR: "This shade is a muted copper frost with a strong blue duochrome shift." Of the three this week, it's the only one I haven't seen in person yet; duochrome is meant to pick up the blue from Beverly's flashlight. It really was called "Murder Basement" at first, except that we already have Murder Tie.

CHRYSALIS: "This shade is a soft greige with iridescent sparkle and shimmer. We like to think of this shade as a 'veil' to wear over other colors, or on its own as a delicate highlight." The eyeshadow post that turned into a paragraph of meta about Hannibal's human veil: you're welcome.

STARLING: "This shade is warm black frost with a strong orange/copper duochrome. Appears as a chocolate brown in photographs, must see in person!" It's true, I've swatched it in person myself. Somehow also manages to pick up a palette that the two movie Clarices have in common.

We just had a huge brainstorming session, so I don't quite know which colors are coming up next--or what the next three episodes will suggest.

As a side note, I have really not been doing so well with the medication adjustment, while still hanging in there--it's all migraines all the time right now, is the thing. However, I'm actually kind of glad that I ended up not recapping this season as it aired, given the controversy last week. At least I was spared having to deal with that, I guess. I feel like it'd be a good idea to pick up with recapping two weeks from now and walk through episodes 5-13 in the context of the season as a whole. And that way we can keep discussing the show into the summer and wind down from what I am 110% sure will be a soul-wrenching finale. It's not necessarily the way I'd want to do it next year (~*NEXT YEAR*~), but it seems like the best way to handle things this year, if people will still be interested.

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"...if people will still be interested."

Yes. Definitely.

(And I'm sorry the migraines are a thing. They are, to understate, no fun.)

Looking forward to the recaps - it will be a nice way to revisit the season once it's over, when things are a little cooler and less intense. And hopefully you feel better soon - constant migraines sounds really bad. My husband is on some new medication which brings on light sensitivity and vision problems, and it's been a real adjustment for both of us.

Thank you for these open threads, they've been great! I'm looking forward to checking in tonight, though I won't be able to watch until quite a bit later.


On a somewhat (un)related medical note...

So my doctor changed my pain meds yesterday and phoned it into the pharmacy. I picked it up and took it and everything seemed fine until this morning when I realize that I'm not taking an anti-inflammatory, I'm taking an anti-psychotic for a man named Joshua.

After a lot of freaking out and many phone calls it turns out they gave me the right medication but put the wrong label on it.

Re: On a somewhat (un)related medical note...


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Most definitely still interested! So happy we get another season!! Summer recaps would be the perfect thing to tide us over until then. :) I do hope you start feeling better, battling medication is just awful.

I was just thinking that your recaps would be a great way to stay entertained through the hiatus!

And of course, ...

I don't say this to rush or pressure you, but I am dying to read your recap of the scene where Hannibal pets a sheep and someone crawls out of a dead horse.

Edited at 2014-05-10 12:38 am (UTC)

I admit, there have been scenes where I was shaking my fist at the heavens for being so behind. A lot of them were in that episode and in "Yakimono."

Ugh, I'm sorry to hear things aren't going well for you right now. I hope for swift improvement.

it seems like the best way to handle things this year, if people will still be interested.

I think I speak for all of us when I say "YES WE WILL STILL BE INTERESTED."

PS: My mother and I got a kick out of My Little Ravenstag's new career as a business card model. :)

I'm waiting for Amazon to grab Season 2 as well so yes, I'd LOVE to read the recaps while I'm waiting for Season 2.

Yes, summer recaps are a great idea. We'll need the support once the glow of YAAAYYY SEASON 3 fades a little, and you'll have time to mull it all over and put it in context. Hopefully, too, you'll feel better by then.

So is Tender Murder Caress one of the above colors or a forthcoming one? I LOVE my Ravenstag. Also looks great on dolls.

Tender Murder Caress = Chrysalis.


Hiatus-recaps vs. contemporary-recaps: both have excellent points in their favor (although with hiatus recaps, it's harder for you to be the lathe of fandom on LJ). The real joy is in the conversations we all have, not how closely they coincide with the episodes upon which they're based, so do what works for you, we'll enjoy the recaps more when we know they're not making you unhappy, it'll be a sparkly murder pony party in the comments.

Edited at 2014-05-10 01:18 am (UTC)

Well, the thing is that I had something else I was working on plus ungood health; the recaps themselves weren't making me unhappy per se. I just realized last week that if I had been doing them, things might have gotten... unpleasant.

(I kind of wonder if everyone won't be talked out by then, though. There's been more conversation in these posts than I've been able to keep up with.)

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my stomach is current killing me, so I can't have my usual pre-hannibal drinking. sadness... and I really hope this episode isn't too gross.

That's great, it starts with a wheelchair
Margot stare
Will's hair is not afraid

Eye of dead man, listen to the murder plan
Girl, serve your own needs, Alana has her own needs
Serve it up to Jack, cutting board, head whack
The squealing starts the feeling with the hogs, tied tight, fight?
Vitriolic murderholic, slam fight, red light
Feeling pretty psycho

It's the end of the season as we know it
It's the end of the season as we know it
It's the end of the season as we know it, and I feel fine.

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Still interested!

Do you like receiving postcards while enduring migraines? I like sending them. Random stranger <3

I don't know about you guys, but I need a cigarette after that dining scene.

A. this is aweful

B. hannibal is going to have him eat his own face cause he killed will's baby? or he manipulated this so will wouldn't have a baby? argggg

Hannibal seems to have this thing with wanting to make other people into murderers.

When you get down to it his whole relationship with Will is based on him wanting to make him into his serial killer protege.

And I believe in the book Hannibal wanted Margo to kill Mason and kept pushing her towards that, for lack of a better answer. And she did.

Right now I can't believe I'm saying this but MAKE HIM EAT HIS OWN FACE. FACE-EATING BETTER HAPPEN IN THE NEXT EP.

I have three things to say:


2) WOW the "Rosemary's Baby" bumpers were inappropriate.

3) I feel like that AvP tagline: "Whoever wins, we lose."

Alana's not-friendly visit was totally a "Bitch, stay away from my man" visit, and I'm not even a shipper.

My little viewing party was waffling majorly on whether Hannibal intentionally sicced Mason on Margot to maneuver Will into going after Mason, or whether he was just throwing firecrackers into the crowd to see what would happen, and if the former, if it was one of those regrettable but necessary sacrifices *coughAbigailcough*, or, or, or...

Maybe he was looking forward to the pitter-patter of little hooves?

I think he doesn't want Will's attention on anyone but him. And that other stuff, too. :-)

HOW WAS MY FUNERAL. This has now gone from Will’s conspiracy to a master conspiracy. At first, Alana doesn’t seem to be putting the pieces together as she is back to thinking Will has gone psycho. She suspects a killer, and she’s looking at the obvious unstable choice. I liked Will giving her the gun and telling her that no matter who she was afraid of, not to be afraid to use it. But by the discussion at the Shiva crime scene, Alana seemed to be getting to the idea that there were two killers talking back and forth through killings. And if she thinks one of them is Will, well… who is the other? She’s already twigged onto the fact that there is something Wrong with Hannibal and Will’s relationship. Which everyone else seems to know already, JACK. (I still want to know if Freddie was in on the plan before or after Will dragged her screaming from her car. I favor after, lol. Also, I guess Jack just had a body lying around they could set on fire.) But now, I’m wondering exactly how the “STOP” from the promos will come about. I think we all guessed Alana was surprised and horrified in that moment, but not that she might be there with an inclination about what Hannibal is already. Though any wavering she was doing—walking in on that scene would cause it to vanish. And was I the only one who saw Hannibal’s ‘nice’ façade that he usually has up around Alana vanish when he sniffed her hand?

I guess we’re past that whole ‘double speak’ thing as far as Will goes, as Hannibal asks “Did your heart race when you murdered her?” Though Hannibal himself hasn’t said anything incriminating, which I gather is the problem. Of course, Hannibal is also saying things like “fuel your radiance” which is totally a normal thing to say to your murder boyfriend. And then they just sit around late at night talking about killing and children and killing children, as you do. But I totally think Hannibal is sad in one way about Abigail not being there anymore. Except it’s that whole compartmentalization thing. He misses the opportunity of her and what he took from Will in killing her, but at the same time, she had to die so what are you gonna do. Eeek, but we got more Mischa references. I halfway expected Will to ask if Hannibal killed her, but maybe he could sense that that’s not what happened. But even though Hannibal isn’t incriminating himself, I still think he’s falling for Will’s routine hook line and sinker. He fully seems to believe that Will is “finding himself” and “getting better”. And I think the incrimination thing also goes back to compartmentalization. Like, even if Hannibal believes he’s won Will over, admitting to a crime would just be stupid, y’know. Trusting that Will is on his side and not letting his guard down don’t have to be mutually exclusive.

Mason is a CREEPY FUCK. I continue to be impressed with how creepy he can be even though the tear martini thing is ridiculous when you strip it down. I also continue to be impressed how there are lines and shades from the books (“have a chocolate”), but that sexual abuse is not actually written into the text, just the subtext if you’re paying attention. Though it’s hilarious that Mason is the first patient to lie on the couch, which Hannibal is having none of, lol. Why do you have a couch if you want no one to use it, Hannibal. Also, way to look even creepier in red hospital scrubs, Mason. But OMG, Margot from the books couldn’t have children because of steroid use, and here it’s going to be because Mason had her sterilized with a hysterectomy. OMG THE WORST. (But there go any worries about future plot ramifications of giving Will a biological child.) I loved that Will was the one to go after Mason, but not like you’d think. I loved his ‘You think it was Margot’s idea, your idea, my idea, etc’ to do these things. And then he planted the idea that Mason should feed Hannibal to the pigs. My guess is that that’s what happens next episode, except Mason will be the one who ends up in the pen, and that’s how he’ll get horribly disfigured to come back later. Though I suppose Hannibal could get free and then disfigure Mason’s face either himself or the way he does in the book.

She’s already twigged onto the fact that there is something Wrong with Hannibal and Will’s relationship.

That graveyard effigy was the serial killer equivalent of finding an incriminating text on your SO's phone.

Thank God they didn't leave us hanging for another week about whether Will really killed Freddie. So I'm guessing, since they "verified" the dental records, that Brian and Jimmy are in on this too. I thought it was telling last week that we never saw them investigating Randall Tier's remains.

I'm so glad that Alana is finally getting at least *some* of the truth. Jack just needed to wait until there was enough doubt in her mind so that he could trust her. I still wonder if she'll betray something (even if it's unintentionally) to Hannibal.

I also figured Margot was going to lose the baby somehow (Happy Mother's Day from Hannibal' y'all!). I guess this is how we get to Margot being unable to have a baby and stealing Mason's sperm for her girlfriend.

Or they made a very good replica of her teeth to get Brian 'n' Jimmy in on it without having to trust their discretion. Because seriously, would you rely on those two to not give the game away by getting all weird and squirrely?

Sweet baby Jesus, someone HOLD ME.

--> I KNEW FREDDIE COULDN'T BE DEAD, I JUST KNEW IT!!! Though that seriously scared me. A lot. I'm wondering what it's going to change about Will and Freddie's relationship, if anything. Like, will she trust him now? I assume they won't ever be buddies, but I'd be surprised if they went back to hating each other with the fire of a thousands suns after this whole ordeal. Also--who the hell was that in the chair?

--> I both hate-slash-love Mason. I bounced back and forth a *lot* in this one episode. Yeeeesh. God bless Michael Pitt though--I'm worried he won't be with us much longer, so I will savor every moment he's onscreen even though the non-fangirl part of me can't wait for him to get eaten. That moment when Hannibal looks at the crumpled up coat he left on the couch, it's like he was thinking, "One day, soon, I shall eat your face, and share it with my Lady Friend, my Murder Husband, and your Sister, and then we'll all sing songs around the Theramin, and there will Much Rejoicing."

--> Margot. Dear, dear Margot. I hope you get to feed your brother to his own pigs. Screw everyone else's master plans--you've earned that much at least.

--> Is everyone except Alana in on the whole plan? Because it's starting to look that way. And I don't know whether to be annoyed with everyone else for leaving her out, or at her for not figuring it out sooner.

--> Will punching Mason in the face = BEST THING EVER. Will tossing out the Abigail "lure" and Hannibal totally falling for it = OTHER BEST THING EVER. Will enlisting Mason's help in taking out Hannibal = MOST UNEXPECTED TWIST EVER. My jaw literally dropped. In the proper sense of the word "literally."

Okay. Now I just need to cry into Freddie's hair.

Edited at 2014-05-10 03:37 am (UTC)

That moment when Hannibal looks at the crumpled up coat he left on the couch, it's like he was thinking, "One day, soon, I shall eat your face

Hannibal had that face throughout Mason's sessions and I was cackling. You know he was mentally running through his various recipes to try out on Mason.

Also a conversation between me and my mom:

HER: Isn't that a bit unethical? [with regards to Hannibal treating both Margot and Mason]

ME: Yeah. But Hannibal did kill one of his patients so. . . .

HER: True.

HELL YEAH, OUR FEISTY JOURNALIST IS STILL ALIVE! I knew it; and yet, I'd be lying if I didn't feel a teensy bit of doubt as the episode went on. Like maaaaaaybe Will did go over the edge. Especially when I had to explain to my mom what the burning wheelchair signified. (I also had to explain the Mason and tear martinis and CHOCOLATE significance to her. *shudders*)

Also: Yay for Alana starting to question things and getting clued in.

Margot, you should've fled as soon as that test showed up positive. I thought Mason was going to throw her down the stairs or cause a horseback riding accident. But what actually happened. . .ugh, that was a 100x worst. I'm amazed Hannibal continues to find ways to out-do himself. (Not that that absolves Mason of his part in the whole thing.) Which. . .

FUCK YEAH, WILL for calling out Hannibal. I have no doubt that entrapping Hannibal is messing with Will's mind; but thank god he has enough of his senses to know that Hannibal was setting all this up.

I have no doubt that entrapping Hannibal is messing with Will's mind; but thank god he has enough of his senses to know that Hannibal was setting all this up.
So much YES to this. I was prepared for him to take Mason the hell down at the end there, which of course was the plan, and you know he wanted to SO badly. But yeah, I can't help but admire his restraint and ability to see the whole thing clearly. Will Graham is the BEST.

Next to the fiesty journalist. I feel they should have had a separate (fake) funeral just for The Hair.

Bryan Fuller just told me over Twitter that what happened to Margot tonight is "a de-sexualized, de-incestualized version of what happened in the novel Hannibal." Um...I've never read the book, but I'm 99% sure my friend who did would've told me if that was the case. I'm confused.

Cliff notes: Mason sexually abused Margot when they were children. She grew up to be a super-butch lesbian who abused steroids as a result of this abuse (because Thomas Harris can't write queer people in a non-offensive way). She was sterile as the result of the steroid abuse, and therefore had to stay with Mason in hopes that he'd donate sperm so she and her girlfriend could have a Verger baby and inherit the estate. The show just had Mason being more directly responsible for her infertility, and took out the rape. It implied some other rape, but it at least took out the childhood sexual abuse.

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waiting for the episode to come out...

Cleo, I think your recaps would be even better when written in retrospect after this season ends. A lot of things in previous episodes might be answered in later ones, and you can do call forwards as well as callbacks. Oh, and there's no way people wouldn't be lining up to R&R these recaps when they come out in the summer. I for one would be flailing and sobbing (I have a feeling that Will did get gutted by that linoleum knife in the finale, which is why Jack went to Hanniba's alone) and downright happy to read the recaps so I can share my misery with you and the other reviewers.

I'm so sorry to hear about your recent health conditions. It really sucks to have to be so careful about medication like that. I wish you a substantial recovery from all that.

Sending you good wishes--migraines are so freaking dreadful.


her pepper spray Windu...

Omg, I died.

Also: yes, summer hiatus recaps! I don't even watch this show and I still would live for them.


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