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cleolinda
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Oh my God. I just finished the new Harry Potter.

This book is going to rock online fandom. I haven't stirred from my tiny corner of the internet for a couple of days to remain spoiler-free, although I had $50 on Dumbledore buying the farm anyway, but--man, it has got to be tough to be a Draco and/or Snape fan right now. Because "omg Snape is so conflicted but he's really doing the right thing" has been, barring a counter-revelation in book seven, blown out of the water. Also, not only is Draco a little bastard, he's a little bastard who doesn't even have the guts to do what he was supposed to do.

Anyway, what really struck me were the pairings-off in the book--seriously, I got to the part about The Star-Crossed Love of Tonks and Lupin and went, "Ohhhhhhh dear. Sirius-Lupin shippers are never, ever going to buy that." Harry/Hermione shippers? Ohhhhhhh dear. (Side note: I personally thought the big Harry-Ginny moment was awesome, and that Ginny in particular has become an awesome little firecracker over the last couple of books.) And then, oh God, the noble Spider-Man ending. At a funeral, even.

I would really like to comment on all the great little moments that made me howl ("A Cauldron Full of Hot, Strong Love." Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot), but the last few chapters of the book are--God, they're just about harrowing. I think we're going to have to admit that Rowling has passed out of the realm of "children's literature" and into--what, "young adults"? I mean, never mind the sinister little sexual glimpses here and there--Merope Gaunt, Hepzibah Smith--the whole thing with the supposed Horcrux and then Dumbledore's death is just horrifying. God. And I think I mean that as a compliment. But I would not take a child to a movie of that.

In conclusion... whoa. Gonna grab some dinner now and, like... cope, or something.

ETA: Dammit! I so wanted to believe that I'd fallen for some kind of Snape Isn't Reeeeeally Evil thing, because that would be like an awesome double fakeout or something (I love when a book or a movie can completely snooker me), but this pretty much convinces me that Snape is still on the side of good. Sigh.



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eeyorerin From: [info]eeyorerin Date: July 17th, 2005 12:34 am (UTC) (Link)
I've seen arguments that, well, after Sirius's death, Lupin's up for grabs, so it's not canonically impossible for both relationships to exist.

But yeah, damn, that's gonna be hard to retain a PG rating.
kethlenda From: [info]kethlenda Date: July 18th, 2005 03:41 am (UTC) (Link)
Hey, and maybe Lupin was bi and maybe Tonks resembles Sirius a bit...they were related...
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corellianjedi From: [info]corellianjedi Date: July 17th, 2005 12:36 am (UTC) (Link)
Chapter 26 ("The Cave") is, in my opinion, one of the best written chapters of the entire series. Dumbledore weak and sobbing and Harry hating himself for following through on a promise. That nearly put me over the edge before Dumbledore actually died.

There's no way I'd let a little kid read this book. I loved it, believe me, but it was way too dark for young'ns.
cleolinda From: [info]cleolinda Date: July 17th, 2005 12:45 am (UTC) (Link)
Honestly, from a horror perspective, that was wonderfully constructed. I spent the chapter reeling on one hand and thinking, "Damn, I'm going to have to steal this somehow" on the other.
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chocotaku From: [info]chocotaku Date: July 17th, 2005 12:36 am (UTC) (Link)
This was a shipper's delight, or if your ship just got sunk, a shipper's nightmare. I had hopes for my H/L ship but alas it might be a N/L ship. And yeah, this book passed from children's book the second you opened it. I so wished Harry would keep Ginny with him though. ;_;

Poor Snape and Draco lovers...They proably hate them now with all their heart.
casirafics From: [info]casirafics Date: July 17th, 2005 12:39 am (UTC) (Link)
I think everyone's going to get a lot of mileage out of that icon you're using from now on. ;)
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etherealshores From: [info]etherealshores Date: July 17th, 2005 12:37 am (UTC) (Link)
She managed to cram SO many pairings into that book.,.even Ron and the squid..lol.

God, I miss sweet!Ginny...Rowling has made her into a TOTAL bitch.

WHAT WAS SHE ON when she wrote about Ron/Lavender? Ughhhhhhhhh!!
meredithsg From: [info]meredithsg Date: July 17th, 2005 12:48 am (UTC) (Link)
I love bitch Ginny. If you were the only girl with 6 older brothers, (and always getting teased which is quite evident) wouldn't you be a little bit vendictive to. Those brothers too, simply to survive being the only girl with a family that includes Gred and Forge means developing attitude. I'm sure RON always tells on her, its time to switch the tables a bit.
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sienamystic From: [info]sienamystic Date: July 17th, 2005 12:37 am (UTC) (Link)
I finished it, like - five minutes ago. And to my great glee, my tiny little Tonks/Lupin ship, which I thought maybe five people in the world shared and which I never talked about because I didn't want to have my fan licence revoked, is now going to cause so many heads to explode.

There still are no sympathetic Slytherins on the scene, are there? I wonder if there will be time to do some sort of "unification of the houses" theme in book seven - there doesn't seem to be room.
palmetto From: [info]palmetto Date: July 17th, 2005 12:42 am (UTC) (Link)
They were my absolute favorite pairing. I'm still gobsmacked from having it made canon. o_o

FWIW, I loved Slughorn. He might not have been sympathetic, per se, but he was definitely an example of a non-DE type.
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belladonna_ From: [info]belladonna_ Date: July 17th, 2005 12:40 am (UTC) (Link)
I finished it too -- sooooo good. I have a feeling Snape will somehow be key in defeating Voldemort in Book Seven.

I'm kind of into the N/L ship.

I like how she's setting it up for Book Seven, with Harry, Ron and Hermione on the offensive for once. I think it's going to be a *great* book.
chocotaku From: [info]chocotaku Date: July 17th, 2005 12:50 am (UTC) (Link)
I'm thinking that we won't have to worry about Voldemort so much as Snape being his right hand man. Now Harry has to take down TWO powerful wizards? And find the 4 other Horcruxes? crap he's going to be busy in this last book.
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executivehpfan From: [info]executivehpfan Date: July 17th, 2005 12:41 am (UTC) (Link)
That book was fricken AMAZING.

Yes, Snape was being righteous. I am SO SURE he is not evil.

So sure.
unexplored From: [info]unexplored Date: July 17th, 2005 02:24 am (UTC) (Link)
Completely there with you. More now than ever I believe that Snape isn't evil.

I'm a little peeved everyone is so willing to believe the worst about Snape and treat everything that Harry says as gospel.
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marumae From: [info]marumae Date: July 17th, 2005 12:42 am (UTC) (Link)
God. And I think I mean that as a compliment. But I would not take a child to a movie of that.

My first thought was "dear god how is this going to translate to movie form"? Yeah, I was surprised at Tonks/Lupin, however I can see why she threw them together. It just struck me as so last minute. However, I find myself waiting in anticipation for the fires to errupt. Non satisfyed shippers everywhere died a little inside today. Wasn't feeling Ginny/Harry though, didn't see where it came from, on Harry's end but there you go.


I actually predict Draco fandom will go through a serious uprising, the half that love him as an evil evil cruel bastard will curl up and die at the weaping, weak, humanized teenaged boy in the bathroom and the half that love the fandom!ized angsty Draco will recoil at what he attempted. I personally came away liking him better for the book, he evolved beyond a "ferret face" for me.

Agreed completely on Snape.
cleolinda From: [info]cleolinda Date: July 17th, 2005 12:50 am (UTC) (Link)
See, I'd been seeing and really liking Harry/Ginny for a while, so I thought it was cool. But seriously, I'm really looking forward to the fandom upheaval over all this, possibly because I'm evil.
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meredithsg From: [info]meredithsg Date: July 17th, 2005 12:43 am (UTC) (Link)

I'm dancing from the shipping

I did a happy dance with both the Lupin/Tonks thing (lately that has been HUGE with pairings anyway) and the Ginny and Harry pairing. I'm still not sure about Snape. I finished the book last night about 4:00 AM but couldn't sleep until about 5:30 because I had more questions now than ever. There is a theory in fandom that Snape is Draco's godfather, and I think that if this were the case he might be willing to give up everything for his godson, especially after his rival died for his godson. Basically I'm more confused than ever. She cannot make us wait two years. It won't be fair!
From: [info]epnfrin Date: July 17th, 2005 02:28 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: I'm dancing from the shipping

You finished in four hours?
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bellereve_ From: [info]bellereve_ Date: July 17th, 2005 12:43 am (UTC) (Link)
The part where someone called Merope a slut... I was wondering if J. K. Rowling was allowed to do that. All the parents will flame her now.
greenwitch From: [info]greenwitch Date: July 17th, 2005 12:49 am (UTC) (Link)
Heh, my jaw dropped at that one.
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palmetto From: [info]palmetto Date: July 17th, 2005 12:43 am (UTC) (Link)
I liked the little things. I liked Blaise Zabini having a personality and how Slughorn wasn't evil, he was just a corpulent old walrus. I still want to know exactly what Petunia knows and how she knows it.
falco_conlon From: [info]falco_conlon Date: July 17th, 2005 01:22 am (UTC) (Link)
I liked how Blaise was black! JKR really likes to mess with fangirls minds though. First people think it's a girl and now he's black! He sounded hot too, got me excited when I saw his name ^_^
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the_wanlorn From: [info]the_wanlorn Date: July 17th, 2005 12:48 am (UTC) (Link)
*reposted to fix the gorram HTML*

Because "omg Snape is so conflicted but he's really doing the right thing" has been, barring a counter-revelation in book seven, blown out of the water.

Unless Dumbledore wanted him to kill him for reasons we'll find out in book 7! I mean, aren't they both Legil- Legel- mind-reader people? Couldn't Snapes look of "OMG U SUXX0R DUMB-LEDORE" really be "Um, what? Kill you? But... you trusted me... But... OKAY FINE." Or something like that?


"Ohhhhhhh dear. Sirius-Lupin shippers are never, ever going to buy that."

As a puppyshipper, Sirius is dead for the time being, so Lupin? Is totally up for grabs. Now, when if Sirius comes back and Lupin spurns him for Tonks? I shall raise my eyebrow at JKR like so: o.O and, um... Well, probably accept it because, dude, it's marketed as children, moving towards young adultish, and the odds of her putting a homosexual relationship in it are kinda slim.

Apparently I'm one of the few sane ones cuz [info]remusxsirius? Is exploding with Tonks!Hate. Which makes this Tonks fan want to smack them all.

Sorry for the long comment.
greenwitch From: [info]greenwitch Date: July 17th, 2005 12:53 am (UTC) (Link)
Must not abuse mod privleges to delete Tonks!hate... Must not abuse mod privleges to delete Tonks!hate... Must not abuse mod privleges to delete Tonks!hate...

*hovers over mouse*

(I already had to delete one entry over there with someone ranting obnoxiously about hwo the ship is sunk without an lj-cut...)
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cinnamoniffer6 From: [info]cinnamoniffer6 Date: July 17th, 2005 12:48 am (UTC) (Link)
I feel so bad for the Ron/Hermione people. After those tense moments, I have doubts that it's going to work at all.

As a side note, I made a sarcastic comment about "favorite ships" about three months ago and I definitely said Lupin/Tonks, thinking it would be cute but it would never happen. AND IT DID. *jawdrop*

I don't feel bad for the people that liked Snape or Draco. They got what they deserved-- a villain that was in character. I expected no less.

This was the first book I recall when I cried before I finished.
cinnamoniffer6 From: [info]cinnamoniffer6 Date: July 17th, 2005 12:52 am (UTC) (Link)
pee ess. who in the world is R.A.B.?

I am angry and if she delays the seventh book more than a few years then I will probably explode.
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From: [info]katybug828 Date: July 17th, 2005 12:48 am (UTC) (Link)
I finished mine a little while ago, too, and I agree with your current mood. My post was that I just didn't know what to say when it was all over. There were many parts that had me yelling at the characters and then laughing at/with them, but the ending has me utterly destroyed. I think it's going to take a few days for me to recover from the ending so that I can actually figure out what the hell happened in the rest of the book. And the Cauldron of Hot, Strong Love had me falling out of my chair (definitely a W.T.F.)
alitaorg From: [info]alitaorg Date: July 17th, 2005 04:36 am (UTC) (Link)
i second that. oh my God.

and staying up all night to read it definitely didn't help my nerves.

it seems terrible to say, but there were parts at the book that just didn't sit well with me. like harry dumping ginny at the end of the book - although he says the right things, it still doesn't make sense that rockstar ginny would be all, "oh...well, okay." and the tonks/lupin sudden hookup, although awesome, doesn't really make sense to me. so she's not sad about sirius's death, but about lupin being a pussy(dog) about their love?

that second chapter, though - when wormtail's serving drinks at snape's - i was squirming for nearly the rest of the book, wanting to dive into the story and wave my arms madly at people and yell, "SNAPE! WORMTAIL!! VERY BAD!!!" so that was very effective.

but by the end i'm simultaneously sobbing and "wtf?"ing.
duncanatrix From: [info]duncanatrix Date: July 17th, 2005 12:49 am (UTC) (Link)
Honestly, and I'm really liking groovy new Dumbledore in the films, it's a shame. I honestly didn't believe Dumbledore was dead; I kept having this nagging suspicion (It's not REALLY Dumbledore! It's an impostor!) thinking of Barty Crouch in book 4 and about Mr. Weasley making Molly check his identity at the door, but no, sadly. This book definitely seemed much more mature than any of the others; although now, noting Miss Rowling's lack of hesitation to kill off well-established (and belived) characters, I'm beginning to fear for our Three Amigos in book seven.

Also...speculation? R.A.B.=Regulus Black? Anyone? *looks around*
cinnamoniffer6 From: [info]cinnamoniffer6 Date: July 17th, 2005 12:53 am (UTC) (Link)
yes. but he's dead. Voldemort himself killed him.

Dumbledore was the worst person to choose. I hadn't cried at a HP book before and this had me sobbing in front of company.
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From: [info]sapphsmum Date: July 17th, 2005 12:49 am (UTC) (Link)
Jill just finished reading it too and it really hit her hard.

She was in tears over the ending. We've talked and I think she feels better. I haven't read the book, but get the gist of what happens from online spoilers.

Yes, JKR has really lifted the bar very high for all future "children's books. And I don't see this one as a movie for kids either!

Christina
freedomfry From: [info]freedomfry Date: July 17th, 2005 12:49 am (UTC) (Link)
Finished it up five minutes ago and turned immediately to LJ.

OMG.

*cuddles Harry*

Yeah, Dumbledore really had to go to lead to the big ol' Voldemort-Harry fight coming up (and man do you not want to be Snape right now), but I was a little ball of tears when Fawkes started singing.

I think I like Draco more now than I did in any of the other books, though. He's a character, not just a taunting bully who shows up randomly. Yeah, it's blown most of fandom Draco out of the water, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

OMG Snape, though. The number of pairings going on was enough to make my head spin, and the image of Ron/Lavender is going to take some serious scrubbing power to get out of my head, but this is now my new favorite HP novel.

The fallout in the HP fandom is going to be fun to watch.
executivehpfan From: [info]executivehpfan Date: July 17th, 2005 01:11 am (UTC) (Link)
...How many Snape pairings did YOU count?!

Draco...I don't know. My relationship with Draco thusfar is kind of love/hate. It's nice, because when he was crying in the bathroom, we saw how human he was, which is something we don't really see from Malfoy. But then, when he couldn't kill Dumbledore and Snape had to, I kind of was angry with him for not growing a spine. Mostly because it made me doubt my (former) potions professor for the first time since book one.

Even if it was righteous, Snape killing Dumbledore with a hateful look in his eyes made me falter.
However, until I read the final line of book seven ('scar' and all), I'm going to keep on firmly believing that Snape is and always was Dumbledore's follower.
JKR once said Snape would not put on a turbun, and why start now?
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theferrett From: [info]theferrett Date: July 17th, 2005 12:51 am (UTC) (Link)
The great thing about Snape is that he can be conflicted. What better way to get Voldemort's absolute trust than to kill Dumbledore? And after all, Dumbledore specifically went out of his way to be defenseless.

I'll give it 'til Book 7. I want Snape to be good. If he's not, I'll go nuts, because then the lesson becomes "First impressions are always right."

Besides, him being good will piss off Harry to no end.
tabbyclaw From: [info]tabbyclaw Date: July 17th, 2005 12:56 am (UTC) (Link)
I'll give it 'til Book 7. I want Snape to be good. If he's not, I'll go nuts, because then the lesson becomes "First impressions are always right."

That's my beef with it, too. I love Snape as a character and as a moral lesson, namely that just because someone's your personal worst enemy doesn't mean he's also the antithesis of everything you stand for and must be eradicated.
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tabbyclaw From: [info]tabbyclaw Date: July 17th, 2005 12:51 am (UTC) (Link)
Actually, I think Rowling's statement of "I have no big plans for Draco" has been blown further out of the water. I have a suspicion that Draco is somehow very important to the Resistance, and Snape killed UDmbledore to keep Draco just this side of redeemable.
mysticowl From: [info]mysticowl Date: July 17th, 2005 04:08 am (UTC) (Link)
Well... one can argue that Draco could be persuaded to turn against Voldemort because Voldy's death would mean the end to the threat his family faces, right? Or at least he could be persuaded not to stand in Harry's way, I guess.
maetang From: [info]maetang Date: July 17th, 2005 12:54 am (UTC) (Link)
I thought Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him to save Draco from the guilt of having to do it, esp since Draco was wobbling over the decision.

And then if Snape were really on the side of Good, he'd probably have told Dumbledore about swearing the Unbreakable Vow to protect Draco, and to carry out the mission if Draco couldn't. So Snape would have to kill Dumbledore anyway if Draco didn't, and if Dumbledore knew that, his asking Snape to finish him off would also allow Snape to keep his cover intact.
mysticowl From: [info]mysticowl Date: July 17th, 2005 03:28 am (UTC) (Link)
I thought Dumbledore wanted Snape to kill him to save Draco from the guilt of having to do it, esp since Draco was wobbling over the decision.

Not just that, but to stop Draco from splitting his soul! After all, this book clearly described to us what the effect of murder on a soul is and how it can mean even more dire consequences for a wizard than for a muggle.
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skyblade From: [info]skyblade Date: July 17th, 2005 01:01 am (UTC) (Link)
You know, I actually kind of saw Remus and Tonks together in book five myself. Tonks totally strikes me as someone rebelious enough to hook up with someone a little bit older than her, and a werewolf at that.

And it seems Lupin can't get enough of the Black family tree.
cleolinda From: [info]cleolinda Date: July 17th, 2005 01:09 am (UTC) (Link)
Please stop me from making jokes about how "once you go Black..."
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ambiguousreason From: [info]ambiguousreason Date: July 17th, 2005 01:13 am (UTC) (Link)
I completely agree with everything you just said, one-hundred percent. Particularly the part about having to go cope now, because I'm really just shaken.

I do have to say that despite the fact that Draco *is* a gutless little bastard, I still feel a certain amount of unsquelchable pity for him.
cleolinda From: [info]cleolinda Date: July 17th, 2005 01:37 am (UTC) (Link)
Pity, but... yeah. I guess I'm tired of people defending Draco because they love a character that, IMO, doesn't really exist in the books as written.
falco_conlon From: [info]falco_conlon Date: July 17th, 2005 01:14 am (UTC) (Link)
I'm a huge remus/sirius fan but I can deal with tonks and lupin. I mean if you really think about it, they would be adorable.

As a Hr/R shipper I definitely squeed quite a bit, along with Harry/Ginny but the pairing that really had me rolling on the floor was Ron and Lavender. JKR uses the word Plunger to describe their make outs. I mean come on. It's just too brilliant. And "Won-Won"? Took me a while to stop laughing at that.

I hope there's some extreme revelation for snape in book 7 because I really want to love him. Right now I can't because I adored dumbledore more than anything, but I hope things change. As for Draco...initially I was angry out of my mind and could only come up with very nasty words to describe him but then I reread the bit with him telling Dumbledore that if he didn't do it dear old Voldie would kill his mother, who he obviously loves. And if you think about it, the kid is only 16, probably terrified and really doesn't have it in him to kill anyone, much less some one like dumbledore, not to mention he's terrified for his mother. With all that in mind my hate changed more to pity.

The part that really grabbed me was in the beginning with Narcissa and Snape. Who knew she would turn out to be so human. Same with Draco. With the tears and the begging, I mean that's real love. I also got the vague feeling that while he loves his mother very much, he doesn't care about Lucius a whole lot which I don't blame him for.

All right. I'm ending the essay now. You're just lucky I didn't give you a thesis and everything. I could have gone all out here but I held back.
chocotaku From: [info]chocotaku Date: July 17th, 2005 01:33 am (UTC) (Link)
What's really funny is that "won" is what the japanese use for barking puppies, so when I see "won won" I think if a yapping dog. It's perfect really...
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thepodsquad From: [info]thepodsquad Date: July 17th, 2005 01:17 am (UTC) (Link)
Well, freak that I am (and the fact that I am in no way into HP Fandom), I came away from the book loving Draco even more than before. Which is saying something.

While I did always have a soft spot for Villain!Draco, it's nice to seem him act like a human, and not a cartoonized villain.

Poor other fans of Draco.

And Snape isn't evil. I still refuse to believe it!
falco_conlon From: [info]falco_conlon Date: July 17th, 2005 01:22 am (UTC) (Link)
agreed. He had so much more character in this one. He wasn't just "Harry's Arch Nemisis" anymore. He had motive and reason.
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mitchy From: [info]mitchy Date: July 17th, 2005 01:18 am (UTC) (Link)

*hops up and down*

I just need to share this theory with someone, anyone.

Anyone else think it's a gimme Harry is the seventh Horcrux? Makes the prophecy make even more sense. Can't kill one without killing the other so neither one can live while the other survives. Harry knowing Parseltongue. Explains the scar. And a zillion other things.

And damn you JKR, for now we have to wait a million years to find out how you're gonna resolve it.
executivehpfan From: [info]executivehpfan Date: July 17th, 2005 01:22 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: *hops up and down*

You mean...like it's not in Voldemort's body, but in Harry's? His essence, his soul...thingy?
Dude, it makes sense, but wow...how dark.

It'd fit in with the prophecy...well, PG-13 rating for book seven then. Hell, PG-13 rating for this one!
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