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Open discussion: Hannibal 2x09 "Shiizakana"
dire ravenstag gunmettle, dire ravenstag, dire ravenstag 04
It's the kind of day where I almost forgot it was Friday. That kind of week, really.

Two Aromaleigh eyeshadow colors this week:

APIARY: "This shade is a a gorgeous deepened yellow/gold with cocoa tones leaning towards brown, and a smattering of violet sparks."

FEAST: "This shade is a smoky violet with a coppery highlight and sparkles of red, russet and indigo."

I'm not sure what the next two will be, but the two I'm thinking of are super interesting concepts that we have been discussing for ages. That said, we usually think of at least one new color every time a new episode airs these days, and Kristen is actually making these up as we go along (exciting!), so.

Meanwhile, there is some straight-up X-Files-looking business on tonight; I don't even know what to make of it.

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once again, parents have taken over the tv and look rather comfortable. might be late watching it, but I'm chatty anyway.

Fun fact: the berserks had a pack equivalent, the ulfheðnar (wolf coat), and each had its own fighting style relating to its animal suit.

Edited at 2014-04-26 02:30 am (UTC)

"Remember Technoviking? Now we've got TECHNOBERSERKER!"

The first victim's death made me think of Bernie Wrightson's illustrations for Stephen King's short novel Cycle of the Werewolf. Specifically the illustration for November, featuring "the Beast" chowing down on a headless corpse while sitting on the roof of a Peterbilt...

So what does it say about me when I find that this episode horrified me more than pretty much any other one?

And hoo boy that ending. Looks like Will brought dinner again. He's so thoughtful that way.

My favorite part of the episode: Will and Margot's chat. I could almost ship them if the episode hadn't confirmed that Margot is a lesbian.

I ship Margot and Bedelia.

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I don't have anything coherent to add right now because I'm mildly hammered, but if anyone is interested in playing along, I've put up a Hannibal Drinking Game.

I played along tonight and did pretty well. Granted, I forgot to add "Drink whenever a reference is made to the books/movies", "Drink when there's time-lapse photography", and "Drink whenever something's so absurd you almost think it's a dream sequence."

Including those last three would actually clue the authorities in to your fiendish plot to kill us all from alcohol poisoning.

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I don't even know where to start. I'll just say this: Much as I fear Will's Becoming, it was a *brilliant* move sicking Randall on Buster. I went from, "Sweet Jesus, Will, that slope is looking slippery, watch yourself," to "FUCKING GET HIM, WILLDAGO! GET HIIIIIIM!!!!" And there was much rejoicing. And a post-show power cuddle with my own dogs.

Also: Was anyone else getting a Red Dragon vibe from all that talk about Becoming the Beast? I wonder, partly because I just finished the book (finally!) and partly because I know Dolarhyde going *slightly* different places in the show on account of the No Rape Policy.

And I'm kinda shipping Margo/Freddie as well. Their hair is already entering a fierce rivalry on Twitter.

The animal suit also reminded me (belatedly)of Dolarhyde's murder dentures.

Also, the way the characters say "becoming" all the time is just weird. Dolarhyde did it because he was crazy, and it sounds kind of awkward and forced coming from characters who aren't having an intimate emotional relationship with a painting.

You guys, I think I have to start smoking cigarettes again (I unwisely quit right before S2 started). As far as I see it, it's the 'least' offensive vice I can pick up to help manage my anxiety about this show.

Also I need to watch this episode about 14 more times before I can comment because I have NO IDEA...


I feel you. I stopped smoking YEARS ago, and generally speaking I don't miss it at all. But this show gives me cravings pretty badly. If I did still smoke, I would probably burn through a lot of cigarettes per episode.

Okay, wait, since I'm actually more coherent than I thought, I'm going to toss out a theory I entertained in last week's discussion post and am starting to think is seriously possible:

I think Will is going to (accidentally) kill Alana.

Mainly, it's that we seem to be building to both 1) Alana having something terrible happen to her, and 2) Will killing someone (not out of self-defense/defense of another). There's been clues all over the place that Alana's headed somewhere bad, with Chilton and Will warning her and with ominous warnings immediately cutting to shots of her. The season also seems to be about the building of the darkness in Will -- particularly since he just killed Cave Bear Guy. Yet I can't imagine that the growing darkness will end well for Will, especially since he seems to grow more and more trigger-happy. What I imagine the end result will be: Will is going to hurt someone innocent. Probably not on purpose, but I imagine it's gonna happen.

That, and there is that one line: "I wonder who else will be hurt be what you do", said by Hannibal to Will. Note the phrasing: hurt by what you do, not what Hannibal does.

I may be wrong (I am often wrong!) but I wouldn't be shocked if Fuller tried to wound us all by tying those two lines of foreshadowing together. Maybe Will's chasing Hannibal, Alana's running from Hannibal, it's dark, he's trigger-happy, and something bad happens. Maybe not. But I'm wondering if that's where we're headed.

I really hope we don't lose another female character, especially now that we have Margot filling the "look, a woman is onscreen and talking" role.

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Yeah, is the social worker still out there or what? And as the guys on last week's AMoT podcast mentioned, the social worker was present for that entire mindfuck of a conversation between Hannibal and Will. I figured Hannibal would kill him after the fact just so as not to have a witness.

Shii, one more thing.

Just scrolled up to see the thread's main message.

Cleo, my queen-- *big ole hug*

Last week, I knew it was Friday (because I did many of the Holy Week services), but I was so tired I actually forgot it was Hannibal day. Which made a nice finale to the existential despair and horror of Good Friday.

(Ugh, wall of text, I'm so sorry.) Also, Cleo, thank you so much for having these episode discussion posts. As much as I look forward to the recaps, the discussion is always just as much fun.

Man, Will is in this to catch Hannibal, but he’s really close to losing himself. He has to go all out and commit to the darkness in order to draw Hannibal in. And I think in committing to it, he’s also discovering it and discovering it’s not all an act. The opening nightmare was particularly vivid, with Will using the Ravenstag to tighten the rope binding Hannibal. The Ravenstag used to represent Hannibal in Will’s subconscious; now it’s obeying Will’s own commands. Even Will’s whistling seemed creepy.

Oh, but Will is officially a patient now. Well, probably best for confidentiality if we’re talking murders and such. “If I choose not to do something it’s usually for a good reason.” I can’t imagine what Hannibal considers a good reason for not doing something. I mean, if *Hannibal Lecter* thinks it’s a bad idea, it’s probably best left undone, y’know? But this dynamic is still blowing my mind in a way. ‘Therapy’ with someone you KNOW is a monster. It should be an impossible scenario to even happen, but the writers have set up the circumstances beautifully, and I love this bizarre dance that Hannibal and Will are doing, and I love that it’s lasting for several episodes. I like when Hannibal tells Will to “adapt your behavior to avoid feeling the same way again”, which in Hannibal speak is clearly ‘you totes should have murdered that guy, do it next time so you have no regrets’. I love that this is what Hannibal’s therapy has been driving Will towards since S1, except now he’s totally being upfront about wanting Will for his murder buddy. (Oh, but let’s just take a moment to appreciate Hannibal’s hat at the crime scene, because of course that’s his hat. He wouldn’t be caught dead in a hat like Will’s.)

I’m unsure whether Will believes Hannibal or not about killing Bedelia (because if Hannibal did, he would hardly say yes, as that would incriminate him). But yeah, it seems like Will is not the first patient Hannibal has encouraged to kill, though I think Will is certainly the, well, pinnacle. Like, if Hannibal thinks it would be interesting to get Randall or Margot to kill people, it’s a fun amusement, but getting Will to do would be creating a masterpiece. Margot is interesting in that she is savvy enough to pick up on what Hannibal is doing. I liked her and Will comparing notes, and then Will confronting Hannibal afterward about what would happen if his other patients talked to each other. I think Will gets that getting others to kill was Hannibal’s genuine ‘therapy’ for them. Hannibal genuinely thinks Will would be better off if he gave in to his urges.

I admit I’m a little confused about the scene where Hannibal sicks Randall on Will. Will seemed to think it was because he tried to have Hannibal killed (which I’m also undecided on: was Hannibal really hurt by that, or was he mostly impressed? Like, this is what friends do! Frame each other for murder, try to have the other one killed, good times!), but I wasn’t sure if it was because Will tried to have Hannibal killed, or because Hannibal just wanted Will to kill someone. I lean towards the latter. Hannibal can’t free Will and make Will feel good about killing unless Will kills someone. Gah, I love how Will then takes Randall back to Hannibal’s house and lays him out on the table. I mean, Will is in this now. Will is bringing bodies around like nbd. (Geez, in fancy cannibal etiquette this probably means they’re engaged.) And even though Will is all ‘Even Steven,’ what else does it say that he takes the body to Hannibal? Is it a weird ‘okay, now YOU clean up this mess’ thing, or more of a complete confidence that Hannibal will take care of all of it and Will needn’t ever worry about getting caught? Either way, they kind of are murder buddies now. It all goes back to that bizarre in-the-know, completely honest relationship. It’s an extreme level of trust to know that you can show up at a guy’s door with a dead body and that nothing will happen to you. It’s a fucked up trust, but it’s still trust.

Agreed with all of this, but especially the last paragraph.

I'm really worried for Will right now. Okay, so he brought the body back to Hannibal: now what? Sure, Will might have been able to argue self-defense if he'd just called the cops, but he didn't do that - he went to Hannibal instead. And while I'm sure there's paperwork to allow law enforcement officers to break the law in the name of catching bigger fish, Will is neither an officer nor is he acting like one. His conversation with Jack last episode looked like it was off the books, so what the heck is going to happen when Randall is discovered/declared missing? (Since the Randall-tiger in the preview might have been a hallucination/imagining, and not necessarily Hannibal+Will's work.)

Besides, even with the trust Will is showing for Hannibal (Will feeling trust is a whole other issue of reality vs acting), this gives Hannibal more leverage. This isn't the first time Hannibal has sent Will into the bear's lion's den, but it's the first time Will made Hannibal an accessory to a death that Will committed. Will is going to be in such trouble when Hannibal's arrested, if Will's sense of self even makes it that far...

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I try to imagine the ripple effect that must happen whenever the show makes references to the books...

"I collect church collapses." *rustling sound of fandom's hair standing on end*

OF COURSE Hannibal's going to be wearing an Ushanka in the cold weather.

Will and Hannibal's siccing killers on one another made me think, oddly enough, of the Pink Panther films... How Inspector Clouseau and Kato had this all but unspoken agreement where the latter would attack the former when he came home. Part of a whole combat readiness thing. It started out as kung fu fighting, and it escalated from there in later films, with the men grabbing weapons, and culminated in a madcap chase through the apartment building they both lived in, with other tenants watching gobsmacked as they ran past...

Edited at 2014-04-26 04:30 am (UTC)

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Once again the writers are writing the fanfic for us, as I can't view the opening as anything other than Hannibal and Will's sex life takes a dangerous turn.

I'm interested to see the Verger's popping up. I didn't know they planned to go there and secretly hope that Gary Oldman will be involved somehow.

I find myself frustrated. I don't feel like the last two episodes have done a terrible lot to advance the plot. Hannibal is crafting Will to be his partner in some kind of godawful buddy cop comedy gone wrong. We get it. I WANT TO KNOW HOW THE BOMB GOES OFF.

Edited at 2014-04-26 05:09 am (UTC)

I'm growing increasingly convinced that the Ravenstag no longer represents Hannibal for Will, if it ever did. The Wendigo is Will's metaphor for Hannibal, and this episode finally says that it and the Ravenstag are separate. Which means the Ravenstag settles on the other interpretation, that of Will's own darkness that's coming out.

I like to think that the Ravenstag represented Hannibal in S1, until Will finally saw Hannibal, at which point the wendigo became Hannibal. But the Ravenstag definitely seems to be linked to Will's darkness now.

i just had to get in a lolololol at "sweetbreads". lololol, sweetbreads.

Yeah, although E.N.!Will discovering Hannibal in that way seemed a little dumb in retrospect, it's still an integral part of canon.